Pure Verts & Skanky Hors

By Gagdad Bob

Reader Chad notes that my so-called book “talks a great deal about mind-parasites as a phenomenon of mental dysfunction. Could a similar concept, ‘spiritual parasites’ as it were, correspond with a lack of spiritual wholeness? Or stated another way, could the quality of Unity you associate with Spirit roughly correspond with the idea of Integrity in Mind? Since we know that our minds can be divided into sub-selves, isn’t it also possible that Spirits can be fractured as well? Are there higher battles to be fought, or does all ‘overcoming’ happen in the mental sphere?”

That’s a lotta questions, so I probably won’t be able address them all in one siddhing. In my quick answer, I referred to footnote 104 on p. 285, which reads, “Perhaps I should emphasize that mind parasites are ultimately ephemeral human creations that operate ‘horizontally’ as long as there are human minds to host them. This is in stark contrast to spiritual entities, which operate vertically (from a higher realm than our own) and preexist the human beings that may open themselves to their influence.”

Now, I realize that even among regular readers, there is probably a substantial number who will regard the reference to spiritual entities as “kooky talk,” as Kramer put it. However, as an aside, one thing I have discovered is that, if you are going to truly embrace the vertical, you have to go the whole hog. Initially it is a leap of faith, but in reality, it is not that different from, say, attending a movie. In doing so, we go into a dark place, temporarily suspend memory, desire and understanding, and disenable our “wideawake and cutandry” ego, so as to enter another world and submit to the director’s vision.

However, have you ever noticed that a great film, in an odd sort of way, seems more real than real? Even though I done graduated from film school, this is something I have never really thought through or articulated before, but it is as if a great film (or any great work of art, really) is sur-real, which literally means “super,” “over,” or “above” real.

Put it this way: art is either real, surreal or sub-real. If you are a Horizontal Man, then it goes without saying that it is merely real or possibly sub-real, since transcendence does not exist. And, as a matter of fact, we have plenty of examples of explicitly horizontal “naturalistic” art that came out of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Interestingly, if you have seen these works, you will notice that in their attempt at realism, they actually fall short of reality, which I think emphasizes a truism I have mentioned in the past: if man does not transcend himself, he falls beneath himself. Most contemporary art has now descended to this level. In draining itself of transcendence, it is mere barbarism by another name.

The human being is faced with two, and only two, metaphysical choices between a wholly secular and ultimately horizontal world view or a vertical and ultimately religious one. In the final analysis, despite all of the apparent variety, this is the only philosophical choice before you. On the one side, atheism, materialism, existentialism, rationalism, what have you. And on the other side, any form of transcendental realism. Now, importantly, if you choose the former, then the latter is excluded a priori. In other words, if there is only the horizontal world, then the vertical does not and cannot exist. However, if you choose the latter, it is obviously no problem fitting horizontality into the picture as a necessary consequence of the very nature of the Absolute.

Back to my original point: this is why, depending on the choice you make, you should have the courage of your convictions and go the whole hog in embracing the One or the other. If you are an atheist, go for it! Certainly don’t waste your time being a lukewarm agnostic, for the truth is this: if God is even possible in your metaphysical scheme, then a moment’s reflection will prove to you that God is necessary. In other words, do not be fooled into thinking that we are dealing with degrees of possibility. Rather, God, just like moral certainty, or absolute truth, or objective beauty, is either possible or impossible.

Now, in my quick response to Chad, I wrote that “You must draw a distinction between the frontal ego, which largely operates horizontally, and the psychic being (which is Sri Aurobindo’s term for the nous, buddhi, or higher intellect), which operates vertically. The former is by definition ‘fractured’ and alienated from its ground, while the latter is a reflection of the Absolute in the relative, and therefore a diversified unity.”

Let us stipulate at the outset that, to the extent that the vertical is real, then it is going to be reflected in us and in everything else. Thus follows God’s favorite cliché, “as above, so below.” Looking at the world in this way, everything below is going to have its analogue in the above, and vice versa. Therefore, we start with the Absolute. The Absolute reflects itself in our local world as existence, or being, the most general category we can imagine, since everything partakes of it. We would also say that eternity manifests as time, which is its moving image.

Even more generally, time is not just mere duration, but the transforming mode of being. It has cycles and archetypal qualities, which is why we can even speak of “growth” or “evolution.” In this scheme, evolution is a necessary consequence of the Absolute manifesting in time. Ironically, progressive evolution (as opposed to mere change) is something that cannot be explained (because it is inherently vertical) by any purely horizontal metaphysics, which is why so-called “creationists” are even more materialistic than materialists. It is always a mistake to try to reduce metaphysical truth — truths that must be true — to your narrow creed. Rather, your task is to understand how these timeless truths are reflected in your creed. God did not give you an intellect only to ignore its most lofty capabilities. Please.

To affirm that man is the mirror and image of the Absolute is to remind ourselves that man is the being who can escape his own limits and participate in the eternal, which we only do all the time. But since we are a mirror image of the Absolute, while it projects itself from eternity into time, our task is to ascend from time to eternity. In fact, when all is unsaid with non-doing, this is the sole task of the spiritual life. This ascension involves reversing figure and ground, so to speak, both spatially and temporally. In other words, we must turn the world upside-down and inside-out.

This is why it is not just a matter of knowing where to look for God, but how to look. You could go to the top of Mount Sinai, or into the the most secret vestibule of the Vatican, or to the mouth of the Ganges, or into L. Ron Hubbard’s big medicine cabinet, but if you don’t know how to look, you’re just going to see a mountain, a building, a river, or a hallucination. On the other hand, if you know how to ascend the mountain, enter a dark cloud of unknowing, crucify your lower mind, and drink from the sacred river, you might just hit the jackpot.

It is not so much a matter of knowing as perceiving. We begin by transforming our vision and developing a spiritual way of “seeing.” As a matter of fact, this is something we routinely do. For example, when you read the words on a page, you actually make the letters “invisible” by looking through and beyond them to the words they spell. Likewise, the words become equally invisible, because you look through them to the meaning they are pointing at. You could undertake a chemical analysis of the ink with which the words are printed, but that would take you no closer to their meaning. Rather, it would take you far in the opposite direction, completely destroying their meaning. Do you get what I’m saying? Good. You just proved the point.

Since God is transcendent, there is no way to see him by simply looking in a conventional way at material or empirical reality. That’s going to take you far away in the wrong direction, that is, unless you somehow look through and beyond the world in a manner analogous to the way we see through words and letters to their higher meaning. This is again why religious fundamentalists are neither religious nor fundamentalist. Rather, they are materialists, in that they act as if the literal words and events of the Bible are more real than that to which they point.

Also — equally ironically — there is no philosophy more abstract than atheism, for it superimposes its sterile and dogmatic abstractions over the mystery of being. No one has more fixed opinions about the unknown than proud Horizontal Man, who is half-correct in believing that some things are “too good to be true.” But he neglects the fact that there are necessarily things that are not good enough to be True, atheism among them. And as we all know, some things are just far too beautiful to be untrue.

Imagine if you were a trained meteorologist. Instead of seeing a cloud as an unambiguous white patch against a blue backdrop, you might begin to see the visible cloud as a mere “ripple” against the background of a much more encompassing meteorological process that is largely invisible to the senses. Similarly, before the days of MRI’s and high speed CT scans, an experienced cardiologist could place a stethoscope against your chest, and simply by listening to the sounds, visualize the nature of the problem. In my own field, especially with a particularly neurotic individual whose unconscious is “leaking” everywhere, I will immediately see mannerisms, demeanor and behaviors as the visible portion of a much deeper, invisible process. In all of these instances, the expert sees or hears the same things as the lay person, but somehow uses what is on the surface to achieve a sort of depth of vision. It is the opposite of deconstruction, which subjects meaning to a ruthlessly skeptical interrogation.

Imagination, in its positive, active sense, is the membrane that makes contact with the higher world. It is dangerous to try to merely understand religious truths, because it reduces them to the known (k) and undermines their function of bypassing the ego and vaulting us out of our conventional way of knowing. Religious truths cannot be comprehended through dogma or through irreligious skepticism, but only through an imaginative engagement with their world. (To be clear: dogma is critical in that it preserves or memorializes these worlds, but it is still our task to imaginatively engage them.)

In short, you must, through your imagination, raise yourself up to religion, not lower religion down to your ego.

As I tried to convey in my book, there is only one story. It is the story of an evolving cosmos awakening to itself and becoming conscious. Who could argue with that? It happened. And it is happyning. First there was matter. Then one fine day, life. Then just a short while back, self-consciousness. And most recently, the recognition of, and identification with, Spirit. Matterlifemindspirit. You can insert an arbitrary line dividing one from the other, but at least recognize that you are the one who is creating the abstract dualism. The underlying Oneness of existence knows no such intrinsic demarcations, neither in space nor in time.

Which is to say that matterlifemindspirit is simply the mirror image of Spiritmindlifematter. As above, so below.

We look at a tree reflected in a lake. In its inverse image, we see that its roots are aloft, its branches and leaves down here below. Looking “up,” we see the trunk rising before us, into the roots that cannot be seen. They are invisible. But this is where nourishment enters the tree and moves down the trunk, where life is carried to the periphery.

May we know the tree by its most excellent fruit!

24 Responses to “Pure Verts & Skanky Hors”

  1. cosanostradamus Says:

    Amen to that! Apathy is the most dangerous trap we could fall into, as John illustrates in the Revelation, to the church of Laodecia:

    3:14 ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither *cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’–and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked– I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.” ‘

    How did spiritual apathy come to grip our culture so thoroughly in the past 2 generations? The rise of economic affluence and the wave of political correctness surely have dulled our spiritual eyes, but there has to be something more for us to forget so quickly. It’s like the sandman came through one night and afflicted an entire nation with cataracts. It seems so much more difficult to reach the spiritually blind than in past years, perhaps because along with the ease of new affluence, a host of horizontal linguists have hijacked much of our religious language, altering its original meaning and heritage.

    Which is why I am so thankful for Bob’s rich oasis where I can drink daily, where illuminated language brings the ancient truths back to life, newly green and deeply rooted.

    Redundant or not – thank you, thank you, thank you.

  2. Iggy Bliss Says:

    It is my custom to (try and) meld ‘practicing the presence’ (like Brother Lawrence) with the ‘via negativa’ of The Cloud Of Unknowing (both books I would recommend for a taste of Christian Mysticism). Mostly I just end up with chunks of time spend in a ‘wordless prayer’ of images, thoughts, wishes and love (& groaning) sent off through the cloud to the unseen God I know is there. Knowledge of whom is strengthened and fortified through His indwelling spirit gained through faith in Christ (in other word: a personal relationship). Bob’s offering seemed to tie directly to this delightfully in his unique phrasing & expressive style.

    Like cosanostradamus, I’ve found myself checking back here daily for a real meal as a supplement (and/or antidote) to the horizontal dreck & sludge in the news of the ‘real’ world.

    Thanks, Bob.

    (Forgive the plethora of parentheticals and quotes – I’ve three wee children scrambling about, dividing my thinking (and typing).)

  3. RiverCocytus Says:

    Good one, Bob.

    This spiritual apathy– at least among Christians– started probably with Constatine.

    A book I recently read “Pagan Christianity” pretty much points out that we have been materialistic in our understanding of the New Testament– using phrases and things to justify what we’re doing, instead of going upward and inward into the mind of Christ and letting our ‘religion’ flow from there. The Bible is less a book and more a ‘door’– which is an apt metaphor, because Christ continually knocks at a door– as should we… Christ says, “Knock and it shall be opened unto you”. Except, we’ve mistranslated. It says, really, Knock and keep knocking, and it will be opened unto you. I use ‘Be Knocking and the way shall be opened’.

    Christ knocks on the other side of the door that is in the physical book; but we must be able to imagine that it is indeed a door. Its also an example, Christ knocks and so should we. Regardless of what others may say, about your status as a warrior-priest, Bob– I can see the moving of the Spirit and I can tell you that you are doing the work of God.

    There are some details we disagree on, I can say, but I can also see it is because we ascend from a different part of the hill. I find utter fascination some days in just considering ordinary things. Sometimes its how that thing could possibly be– the plant, for instance– we see a snapshot of what the plant IS when we look at it, because it grows. So complex– like even a pencil, or a cellular phone– who could have conceived it in its entirety? We didn’t, we just over time put the parts together as need dictated and as our ability to manipulate the materials improved.

    Other days its musing WHY– I thought about animals. There is some reason for each and every one of them… considering that they are merely products of evolution is unsatisfying. (And most probably erreneous) But to consider God’s why for each creature– and to consider how the world vibrates and pulses with primordial music– incredible!

    Of course, I grok most deeply when playing a great piano, but that’s just the peculiarity of my person. Improvisation comes most naturally, it seems– I play better when I don’t look and just play.

    I try to tell people about the creation, in that, while the Bible states that God spoke creation into being– it doesn’t tell us HOW. How did it happen? Are we to assume that these things just materialized into place? But knowing things, such as how the forces in the solar system and universe balance themselves out– how you can’t just ‘materialize’ the moon per se– it was somehow flung into orbit going at a terrific speed– there arises the question of ‘what order’? Etc, etc, etc. Creationism as a literalist concept, just like big bang + evolution raises as many questions as it supposedly answers. And none can be answered from a scientific position… because most of the things cannot be experimented directly on or have the scientific method applied to them.

    But the deeper reality is, which I saw interestingly while watching ‘The Truth Project’ — which is put out by Focus on the Family (or one of its affiliates) points out that the simple wonder of the cosmos and its insane complexity compells us to know it was created and not an accident.

    Oft we have an idea of what we want the Creation story in the Bible to mean, and we use Genesis’ language in our translation and tradition to justify it. Usually its for emotional/material means. A purely horizontal thing.

    If you re-read the story every once in awhile, deeper in your study of the Word, it reads differently every time. Every time. Indeed, there is something profoundly unusual about the Genesis account. Regardless, I have bore witness with my own eyes that within Genesis itself is contained the whole Word in the Bible, and more. It is more than just the Genesis of the material, but it is, upwardly and inwardly every Genesis on every level.

    How this universe came into being is probably beyond our comprehension, or rather, the horizontal comprehension of materialization or chemical reactions. The problem with ‘magic’ usually is, it is just an explanation for the inexplicable, taking something that is deeper, cutting out the roots, and putting it on a platter to show everyone.

    Have you ever seen a picture of the human learning curve? I was working on training my pitch (ear as they call it) and I was using some pitch-training software that started you with a distinct number of pitches and required you to randomly correctly recite them. It then told you how many you had gotten right.

    A man who had used the software wrote an article on it, and showed something that I had never seen before– he used it for 31 days, and showed his learning curve based on the number he had gotten correct each day, until he was consistent enough to add a pitch. What did it look like? A upward-moving, jagged sawtooth.

    Just wanted to share that, reading your posts reminded me of it– the talk of the nature of becoming — the essence of evolution — made me think of it.

    As a second aside, having recently taken Biology 100 at my college, I was told 1. That biological evolution as the source of all life was absolute truth despite being a ‘theory’, and 2. Biological (macro)evolution could not clearly be shown to be actually progressive, I.E. moving from ‘lower forms’ – bacteria, to ‘higher forms’ – mammals, humans, etc. Basically, saying that (or implying that) not just ENOUGH time was needed, but more or less, unlimited time. This is not to say that species do not change over time– whatever ’species’ means– but that without some external ‘order’ influencing it, evolution would proceed in a random direction based on the environmental factors.

    So more or less, understanding the fullness of biological evolution as it is understood by evolutionary scientists, life requires the vertical to ever have existed it all.

    But I guess with an infinite amount of time, the materialist will eventually find the material cause for everything?

    I wanted to say something- in Christian thinking, there are two persons in a person, the essential man, image of God, and the adamic nature- the sinful falleness. Likewise there are two minds, or dispositions fighting against one another- what you would call the horizontal and the vertical. The essential man is from which all Godly things come, and the adamic nature from which all material things come.

    Material does not necessarily mean evil, for evil merely abuses this adamic nature for its own desires– but the ‘material’ man is dumb and unthinking. He is on turns gullible and adamant, righteous and wicked, wise and foolish… without the external order he is subject to his immediate perception and limited knowledge and strength as his assets.

    He thinks in the sense that he can take facts and make conclusions, but for instance, to win Minesweeper, there are situations where one must -imagine- the possible positions of the mines along a row, and possibly figure out where they are simply based on those possibilities. But the adamic man could only do this if someone told him to- without the essential man he cannot go upward and free himself of his system of thinking. He sees mines, and he sees numbers. But minesweeper is not about mines, but the space where they MIGHT be.

    Minesweeper in fact is all about imagining where the mines are and clicking where they aren’t. But keep in mind that the adamic man can be told these things and now knowing them, use them as facts. This is the horizontal thinking.

    The vertical thinking is to look at it, and realise from the outset that the mines are only important insofar as you don’t want to click them, and what you are really doing is at all times trying to accurately speculate where they -aren’t-. They’re never truly revealed until you’ve clicked all non-mine spaces.

    Sorry for the long post, just some ramblings and thoughts.

  4. Jeff Hull Says:

    “This is again why religious fundamentalists are neither religious nor fundamentalist. Rather, they are materialists, in that they act as if the literal words and events of the Bible are more real than that to which they point.”

    I believe I understand your point about overly literal interpretation of text obscuring the path to enlightenment/salvation, but it does seem a tad dismissive. Would you not thereby negate the possibility of words in sacred texts having any actual meaning? Or are some of the words to be taken literally, others not? “Love thy neighbor as thyself … ” as opposed to “When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the water, and coming towards the boat …”

    My recently abandoned mainline “non-fundamentalist” denomination – Episcopal Church USA – has apparently decided that basing religion on a “materialist” interpretation of Scripture is not good or necessary. In so doing, they have (in my mind, at least) cut themselves off from the mystical of the Bible, and conjured up a new set of recommended “faith-based feelings” more in keeping with current secular trends. It’s no secret this is not working out very well. Anyone who questions the modern approach is dismissed as a “fundamentalist,” a particularly pejorative term in today’s liberal dispensation. The funny thing is, the fruits of the Spirit – may I say, manifestations of verticality – are abundantly visible in the much more literalist church I now attend, as compared to the non-literalist tradition I left. Go figure.

    So I suppose my question boils down to, “How does one approach the Infinite if not through the material world?” And if we do approach the Infinite via that material route, how do we know transcendence when we experience it if not in comparison to our material references? The vertical is after all vertical in reference to the horizontal.

    Perhaps you’ve mentioned this earlier – I’ve only been following this excellent exploration for the past few weeks – but am I wrong in feeling more than a whiff of a Gnostic breeze when I sit on your rhetorical front porch to ponder your discussions?

  5. RiverCocytus Says:

    Jeff, read Pagan Christianity (by Frank Viola). Seriously. You will get why. Episcopal Church USA went from one form of materialism to another.

    Gnosticism, if I remember correctly, asserted that they in particular had this knowledge– it was not private but secret– whereas the knowledge Godwin talks about is freely available to all who honestly seek it, thus it is ‘private’ more than ’secret’. Gnosticism considers the physical inherently corrupt and evil, and the spirit uncorruptable and good. Insofar as I can tell, he is not advocating true verticality – i.e. abandoning the body for the ’spiritual journey to the paradise’ or whatever was in vogue at which gnostic-o-clock- but sees materialism as more dumb and blind? Not evil or corrupt, but both real, essential and mostly just pointless without the vertical element? That’s what I’ve been getting.

    I think one of the key gnostic things was, only they had the secret knowledge which could get the soul from the trap of the evil body to the paradise beyond the world. At least, that is what I remember from studyin’ the heresies.

    If I’m wrong either on Gnosticism or about your opinions/ideas Bob, let me know. The only thing greater than my courage is my temerity. Which explains why I have so many healed bruises.

  6. Gagdad Bob Says:

    Jeff–

    Virtually all of your excellent questions have been addressed at one time or another in various posts. No, I do not discount the literal or material at all. I generally follow Maimonides and Eckhart in seeing scripture as holographic, in that any given passage can be interpreted in its literal, moral, symbolic, or mystical sense, although, as you say, there are exceptions where the meaning is obviously either literal or symbolic as the case may be. But even the most profound miracle means nothing in the absence of a symbolic interpretation, i.e., what does it mean?

    Furthermore, scripture must be viewed in its totality, like a multi-faceted jewel, with each part illuminating every other part.

  7. Gagdad Bob Says:

    By the way, I have also posted on the vast difference between heretical gnosticism and the garden variety gnosis that we all use to understand spiritual reality. In other words, we have a spiritual faculty that answers to spritual reality in the same way we have five senses that answer to the physical world.

  8. Gecko Says:

    “Bob– I can see the moving of the Spirit and I can tell you that you are doing the work of God.”
    Yep, we Bobbleheads know with every fiber of our cosmanautical verticality that Gagdad be shinin that light so that Gagboy ( where is he, pleeeze, to lift Pelosi despair) and our kids get to know what’s up.

  9. Will Says:

    On embracing the vertical hog – I think if you embrace a portion of the vertical hog, say, the shanks, then, by way of holographic here-there-everywhere-ness, you really have embraced the whole of the vertical hog.

    Of course, once you have truly embraced the vertical hog, the vertical hog embraces you back. The vertical hog is a very big fellow, so the returning embrace can sometimes be a bit overwhelming. So, when you first embrace the vertical hog, don’t worry about embracing the whole of him, just whatever portion will fit comfortably on your plate. It’s all hog heaven.

  10. Lisa Says:

    Are you sure that’s kosher, Will?

  11. RiverCocytus Says:

    hahaha, good stuff. I can’t get the image of a hog standing up on its nose out of my mind now.

    Its very true, though- this vertical hog will not force more of himself on you than you can handle. In fact, he will not force himself on you at all. Which might be partly due to his vertical position, maybe. He’s a gentlemen, but no elitist.

    I think he’s also a non-pork hog, so he’s 100% kosher. :P

  12. Lisa Says:

    Ha,good point! I came across an article that I thought Bobbleheads might be interested in reading. It not only is written by a mentor of mine but it also trashes the shoddy “reporting” in the LA Times. It also explains the method of Pilates in a very vertical way…
    http://www.pilates-marybowen.com/pages/more.html
    It’s worth a peek…

  13. NoMo Says:

    What if the writers of the Bible WERE inspired by God to write exactly what He wanted? Could God have actually breathed through them the simplest yet most profound truths? And, if so, could God have preserved those words / messages in exactly the way He wanted — so as to be ensure that every human with ears to hear, would? We are SO enlightened with our evolutionary explanation of what it APPEARS happened materially. I say that it is the evolutionist that is the materialist — compelled to explain spiritual reality with some apparent material process.

    So again, I ask, if God were to create a tree out of nothing (as I assume He certainly could), what would we, upon seeing it a few moments later, deduce the age of that tree to be upon examination of its rings? Would we believe Him when He said that its a few moments old — or would we be compelled to believe our science only? The concept of material evolution and the “13.whatever billion years age of the universe” to me is irrelevant. It only detracts from the infinite wonders of the Absolute, that we who believe and have been made vertical through a new birth granted by His grace, are privy to comprehend speck by speck by speck by speck. Perhaps it is that gradual comprehension that is the only real evolutionary process. Let’s not be distracted by appearances — or wordplay.

  14. RiverCocytus Says:

    NoMo: you make a good point. The problem with ‘The Origin of Life’ is, it is a begged question. It says, ‘To know who I am, I must know where I came from biologically’. The Bible account says, ‘You are God-breathed.’

    And yes, I hadn’t thought of that. God could have made the universe with a certain amount of years grandfathered in. The exact times and dates of the creation, if not important, will remain unknown. If important, they will be discovered. It is not our job to play Ahab to the White Whale about Creation. Ours is to do what God made us to do, no more and no less.

    Ecclesiates (my favorite of the books) ends with: “Obey God and Keep his Commandments, for this is the whole man.”

    Our concept of happiness, as the ‘chief good’ derives, I believe, from Aristotle’s Chief Good of ‘Wholeness’. We mistake Happiness for Euphoria, which is the horizontal version of Joy.

    That is what I seek to do. But I’ve found that obedience to God and the keeping of his commandments goes beyond the words themselves, for in every word there is a library, and each word of every book in that library another library. Each book a door, he who listens can hear Christ knocking.

    Sometimes we find a door with no handle. If we knock long enough, someone comes and opens it.

    Hmm… gotta go find that bay…

  15. Will Says:

    River, ultimately the vertical hog will not give you more than you can handle. That’s the good news. The bad news is that you can handle a lot more than you ordinarily think.

    He is a hog of scourging fire.

    Which is sublimated to love, of course, all in hog’s time.

  16. ximeze Says:

    Lisa, thanks for the link re pilates. A studio has just opened locally & been
    eyeing it when passing. Was always the “vigorous exercise then spend rest of day on couch reading” type. Have a couple of old injuries (knee:skiing, neck & wrist:Aikido & cracked/healed-funny tailbone: slipping on concrete stairs) that are starting to bother again. Scared to aggravate them, but I can feel that I’m getting weaker. Would pilates be suitable? How do I know that this studio practices the real deal? Are there questions I should ask?

    Bob, dittos with Gecko re Gagboy (has he brought to heel the dastardly colander?)

    Re NP dispair, found two uplifting things today that should counter the giant-sucking-sound:

    1) a lovely three-parter on connecting with the vertical
    http://shrinkwrapped.blogs.com/

    2) essay addressing anti-war crowd by Justin Haag (Iraq vet – this kid makes me proud to be an American) whose thorough decency shines.
    If you have trouble with the link, found on Michelle Malkin
    http://spectrum.buffalo.edu/article.php?id=29418

  17. Kelly aka Eeevil Right Wing Nut Says:

    NoMo said –

    What if the writers of the Bible WERE inspired by God to write exactly what He wanted? Could God have actually breathed through them the simplest yet most profound truths? And, if so, could God have preserved those words / messages in exactly the way He wanted — so as to be ensure that every human with ears to hear, would?

    I believe that is exactly what happened. I think that is why they have such a timeless quality about them. I think that also explains why such seemingly simple and rustic language used in the bible are so full of deeper meaning. That deeper meaning can only be found (for lack of a better word) by serious study of and meditation on the scriptures – New and Old Testament scripture.

    For example the miracles of Jesus recorded in the New Testament serve at least 2 purposes. First for those who witnessed and for those who read about the miracles later in their literal sense, serve as proof of Jesus’ divinity and establish that Jesus was who He said He was – the Son of God. I doubt the miracles given in the bible were the only miracles Jesus performed which brings me to the 2nd purpose. All the miracles Jesus performed which were recounted in the bible also contain lessons for us and/or reveal deeper insight into the nature of God and/or what our relationship with Him should be.

    I would also add to what NoMo was saying about creation this thought. We do no know and the bible give no hint whatsoever about how long Adam and Eve lived in Eden before the fall. When Eve is first tempted to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, she says she can because God had told them that they would die. That suggests to me that would not have known death had they not fallen. Consider also that their descendants also lived what we would consider abnormally long lives though as time moved on and the descendants became more distally related to Adam and Eve, their life spans decreased.

  18. Kelly aka Eeevil Right Wing Nut Says:

    Ooops, typos! I said “…Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, she says she can because…” That should have been CAN’T

    “That suggests to me that would” should read – That suggests to me that THEY would

    Sorry guys. I shouldn’t post so late.

  19. Paul G Says:

    River, love the quote:

    Ecclesiates (my favorite of the books) ends with: “Obey God and Keep his Commandments, for this is the whole man.”

    I have seen much debate over the event of creation, how (and when) it happened, ad nauseum. Ultimately, I came to the same conclusion as the book of Ecclesiastes: If the point were truly important to my personal vertical relationship/journey, it would be discovered or revealed. In the meantime, seek God. There is nothing else.

    Whether the universe was created 13.7 billion years ago in a massive explosion or a mere few thousand years ago with said billions of years grandfathered in truly has no bearing on my faith. As Bob says, either you believe in the Absolute and seek it or else you deny It altogether and believe your existence to be due entirely to inertia. The scales are so continually weighed down with evidence of God in every new day I see, in every breath I draw, in every ray of light that reaches my eyes, that something as trivial as the scientific origin of the universe really doesn’t have much effect one way or the other.

    Also, since we’re on the topic of Joy, I truly like C.S. Lewis’ attempt to convey It:

    “It was a sensation of course, of desire, but desire for what? …and before I knew what I desired, the desire itself was gone, the whole glimpse withdrawn, the world turned commonplace again, or only stirred by a longing for the longing that had just ceased.

    “I desired with almost sickening intensity something never to be described (except that it is cold, spacious, severe, pale, and remote) and then, …found myself at the very same moment already falling out of that desire and wishing I were back in it.

    “…I will only underline the quality common to the three experiences: it is that of an unsatisfied desire which is itself more desirable than any other satisfaction. I call it Joy, which is here a technical term and must be sharply distinguished both from Happiness and from Pleasure. Joy (in my sense) has indeed one characteristic, and one only, in common with them; the fact that anyone who has experienced it will want it again.”

    That inspires a lot of thought for me, but it’s late and I can’t get my thoughts to form into words, much less sentences, so I’ll let Lewis’ description stand on its own.

  20. Ben USN (Ret) Says:

    Kelly-
    Don’ wury abowt itt. I yam prown too tiepoes awso. :^)

    Thank’s for another tasty feast, Bob!

  21. Ben USN (Ret) Says:

    Paul G.-
    C. S. Lewis explains the distinction of Joy (a Holy Joy) very well.

  22. Van Says:

    “In short, you must, through your imagination, raise yourself up to religion, not lower religion down to your ego.”

    Oh, so true. For the lack of that understanding in both parties, I’ve also found atheists and fundamentalists to be much more like different creeds of the same religion.

  23. Van Says:

    I should say ‘literalist fundamentalists’… they are so tied to the exact wording of the Book, that they experience a failure to launch into the Vertical meaning of the Book – the logos reduced to a mere catalog of happenings, much as the atheist recites the structure of a molecule as being all there is, completely missing the life which the molecule supports.

  24. My Home Says:

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